(Transcript) Bobby Hundreds on Building Brands Around Community, Reclaiming Power with Web3, and Staying Relevant + Consistent, and Listening to Young People

3, 2, 1... 

The last time I sat down with my friend Bobby Hundreds in New York City, I was interviewing him on stage for his memoir book tour.  The conversation around his book this is not a t shirt, was so connected with him and with the audience that I remember vividly thinking - this would make a great podcast episode! And one pandemic later - we are finally here. Bobby Kim also known as Bobby Hundreds, is a bestselling author, photographer, artist, and the creative force that drives The Hundreds, a world-renowned streetwear brand. His work has been seen and worn by millions and he is known for his ability to shift culture. From his upbringing as one of the only Asian American kids in a mostly white and Latino community to his Southern California, punk adolescence to the brand’s explosive success. Bobby has become the bridge between generations in streetwear and design; and collaboration has always been his thing. Bobby's latest book recently dropped and it’s titled: NFTs Are a Scam. The Hundreds have been involved in web3 early on, and I’m really interested in what he has to say. This conversation is also featured in our latest At Your Service short film Noor D’Ays, and it documents how we build AYS. So you can check out that short film on YouTube or ays.media.  This is a big reunion for Bobby and I, and it feels like we picked up right where we left off. Enjoy this storytelling session on building brands around community, reclaiming power with Web3, and staying relevant. 

Noor Tagouri (00:23):

This is many years coming by the way.

Bobby Kim (00:26):

Many,

Noor Tagouri (00:26):

Yeah, many years coming.

Bobby Kim (00:29):

I feel like now I have closure on that segment of the pandemic.

Noor Tagouri (00:36):

Which part?

Bobby Kim (00:37):

This is all I, I've been waiting for this moment to close on

Noor Tagouri (00:44):

So the pandemic is done now to you? Yeah, because now we have reunited.

Bobby Kim (00:48):

Yeah. That's all I was trying to get back to.

Noor Tagouri (00:50):

Thank you. Truly.

Bobby Kim (00:51):

Because at some point we're going to have to reconnect, and that's when I'll call it on whatever that phase of Covid 19 was.

Noor Tagouri (01:00):

Well, it's funny because we were going to LA like every month. I remember at one point thinking, wow, I see you guys more than I see my own friends in New York.

Bobby Kim (01:09):

Oh my God. Yeah, totally.

Noor Tagouri (01:09):

Yeah. That's how, because we were, it definitely felt making such an effort. And this is the first time we're seeing you also just, hello. I'm so happy to see you.

Bobby Kim (01:22):

Yeah, I'm happy to see you too.

Noor Tagouri (01:23):

Bobby. We kick off these conversations with a simple question, how is your heart doing today?

Bobby Kim (01:30):

How's my heart doing? Oh boy. Today, right now?

Noor Tagouri (01:36):

Yeah, or however you received that question.

Bobby Kim (01:41):

I think my immediate response to that, off the top, my heart feels, and I don't know if your heart can feel as busy as your head does, but the heart definitely doesn't feel as settled as I would want it to be. And then there is weight there. I think as many, if not most of the people around me, there are a lot of stressors and anxieties and concerns. Whether you're a parent and you're thinking about your children, whether you're thinking about today it's relatively warm in New York and you're thinking of climate, woke up this morning, read some news about the economy because that's going to happen. And if you're younger, it's a fraught world and things are unpredictable and a little unstable these days. Very volatile. So

Noor Tagouri (02:42):

How does all that impact your insides?

Bobby Kim (02:44):

I definitely feel a lot of that as someone who probably is a bit of an empath. And I've always been relatively, I've been sensitive to especially community, but anyone around me and what they're going through, I kind of tend to absorb a lot of that. And so I think maybe that's what it is a lot of, I've heard a lot of difficult, I've had a lot of difficult conversations over the last week and friends who are going through breakups, divorces, questioning partnerships, and having troubles in personal and professional life. And I don't know, that sits with me too. So I think at the bottom part of my heart, the weight of it feels somewhere around there. And I would love to say that I'm feeling light and optimistic and hopeful. And I think maybe as a day progresses, especially if I'm around young people and someone who's really in spirited by their journey, that tends to rub off on me a bit. And so maybe that can turn around, but right now, that's probably to be transparent where my heart's at.

Noor Tagouri (04:07):

Thank you. Yeah. I mean, I appreciate your honesty and your vulnerability this morning. I revisited the conversation that you had with Nipsey Hussle in 2018 about community, and it felt like every single word that was shared between you two felt more relevant today, especially post pandemic, than maybe the first time I heard it years ago when it came out. And it's interesting because when people talk to you or refer to your work with the hundreds and just your impact in culture, a lot of language around trend and things that are very transient, things that are moving constantly. But there's also a very still component, which is the consistency in community building. And I was really carrying to heart something that Nipsey had said to you, which was that expansion or success doesn't always have to be expansion and wanting to grab all new clientele or new audience members and stuff.

(05:22):

And this is something that Adam and I hold very dearly without your service. It's like, how do we serve our core audience who shows up every time, and then trust that the work will speak for itself, that it'll spread on its own. And I've literally, with my own eyes, witnessed you engage with your community in that way and talk to them from this deep heart-centered place. And somehow you're able to maintain that and be a part of, I don't want to say the trend, but the trend in culture and have of a finger on the pulse of things. And it's funny because you always often talk about young people because you carry this essence of wanting to have an impact on people where they're at in their lives when their minds and hearts are still figuring things out. And I can feel that concern still coming from you today. So how do you balance all of that? How do you feel about all of this now?

Bobby Kim (06:30):

Yeah. Well, you touched on so many things there. I'm going to try to address 'em all.

Noor Tagouri (06:34):

You don't have to address 'em all. You can just respond however your heart speaks to you. Yeah, no, no, no.

Bobby Kim (06:38):

But I want to address 'em all.

Noor Tagouri (06:38):

Great. Yeah, go for it.

Bobby Kim (06:42):

And I haven't listened to that conversation with Nipsey since then, probably just because it's, yeah, it's, it haunts me a little bit.

Noor Tagouri (06:51):

Yeah, of course.

Bobby Kim (06:52):

So now that you're saying that, and I'm recalling some elements of what we were conversing about, I totally agree. I think we are more desperate and starved for community or connection than we ever have been. And I don't think it's just due to the pandemic and lockdowns. I think it has, we can blame the internet and the way that social algorithms are structured. We can blame the politicized environment. A lot of social issues bubbling to the surface, economic disparity, social disparity, and class disparity. There's many things that we can attribute to, I'm not here to diagnose what the problem is, but I am here to talk about what we can do moving forward, what we need to do in order to rectify and bridge some of these severed relationships. And I think that to your next point, we spent so many years collecting people. And that was probably one of the most sobering revelations in the first part of the pandemic for me, was that for the first time in my career, I was forced to stay home. I wasn't traveling like you and I, we both traveled so much and wasn't living out of a suitcase. I have two young children at home, married and sitting across from them every night and sharing a dinner and sharing breakfast and lunches and hanging out with them on Saturday afternoons consistently. And what I learned from all of that was that instead of going out into the world every day and trying to collect and assort different kinds of people, almost like as if they're trading cards or Pokemon

Noor Tagouri (08:50):

NFTs,

Bobby Kim (08:51):

Are there

(08:52):

They're like

(08:53):

Pokemon. I have an entire universe. I have an ocean of people in front of me that I've yet to explore. And so that was very humbling. And once I realized I could probably sit here for a thousand years with, at that time he was probably, my older son was probably 10. So I could probably sit here for a thousand years with my 10 year old and still not learn and explore all of the complexities of who he is as a person. And meanwhile, I'm going out and trying to find 10,000 friends or trying to accrue 10,000 more followers when one person was always enough. And it was a really, really meaningful lesson for me that it was this, speaking of meaningful, I had been on this meaning list pursuit for so long, especially because of social and because of the way the internet was set up of trying to evangelize and trying to recruit as many people into my world as possible.

(10:03):

And meanwhile, I have five people in my community, 15, 500, whatever it is, it's enough. And yesterday we threw an event here in New York and we just did a quick little ice cream social thing, and we asked everyone to come out. Our brand has been around for 20 years, so that's multiple generations now of people whose lives we've touched and different types of relationships we've built with what started out as customers and consumers. And then some of these people became staff, some of them became family, but they're all community in different ways. And it was just amazing to see. There were people that were showing up who just found out about the hundreds, or just read my book at some point this year, and were like, oh, it's you. I just listened to a podcast by you and this was my first time getting to meet you.

(11:00):

And then there were people that were showing up that were like, Hey, do you remember me from this other ice cream social we threw eight years ago? And I'm like, I do remember you. Yeah. Pull up the photo. I remember this moment, we had this conversation, people, kids that we sold to, clothes in a t-shirts and street wear when they were growing up, who were showing up with their children. There was a guy who showed up and he was like, this is my son. And I named him after Adam Baum, which is our mascot. And so I'm like, this is probably all I ever needed was this guy or this woman and this individual. And instead, I got lost in the sauce of trying to, I need 5 million followers. And so I think if we just begin there, this is a very short story, long way of me just saying, if we can just begin there and remember that one person, two people, five people, is enough for a community, then it becomes very clear.

Noor Tagouri (12:01):

Yeah. Wow. Thank you for sharing that. 

Noor Tagouri (12:45):

It's funny because that concept itself feels so radical because it's going against what we're constantly being trained to do, which is want more and want bigger numbers. And I often think about why we put in-person or virtual events on, and what comes, what comes to mind is often to translate those numbers and into actual humans to remember that there are actual people behind those numbers. And we hosted a virtual event a couple of nights ago, and this woman that I see, this was our third one doing third time doing it. And this woman who I saw every year there, she had a question. So I called on her and I was like, it's so great to see you here again. And she was from Spain, and she was so taken aback that I had remembered. And I was like, you, when you engage with somebody in conversation face to face, and you have a meaningful connection, I mean, I'm not going to say everyone's going to remember every single person, of course, because everyone, people have things that are happening in their minds. But to me at least, and I can hear this in what you're saying too, when people come out to support your work and are essentially a part of the team because they're wearing you with them, there's a reminder of why you chose to be in the service industry to begin with. Because I really do consider what we do a service, and it's focused on community building. And so an ice cream social is such a great way to do it. But yeah, these reminders, so it's interest.

(14:28):

So okay, when I have conversations with people about this, it seems like we're all on the same page, or the sentiment is similar amongst creatives and people who are trying to build community. But when we talk about it, it's almost still from this perspective of, but the tech around us doesn't, tech doesn't always support that, or the trends around us doesn't always support that, or the culture doesn't support that. But like what we're seeing is this hunger and actually people finding ways to be a part of community. So is it just how we're framing this conversation and actually a lot more community connection is happening, or is it that this is just a minority?

Bobby Kim (15:13):

What's just a minority?

Noor Tagouri (15:14):

That being able to build community in real life and remember who we're trying to be of service people, I don't want to say people like us, but in the work that we're engaging on the ground in translating those numbers into human beings and realizing that this core audience, these are who we've been trying to serve the whole time.

**REP AD** [00:16:02]

Bobby Kim (15:35):

Yeah. I think we need, I, if we start from a place of being mindful of using community in the human sense versus attempting to frame it as a marketing ploy, which is what right. Has transpired over the last several years. It's probably the buzziest marketing word I've heard, especially over the pandemic, is a sense of community. And that served me and a business. That's because I just written a book about building a brand around community. So then everyone was starting to come to me to say, oh, you tell us how you do it. How do we build brands around community? And well, this is where it's going to get thorny and a bit difficult to figure out if we start approaching it from the sense of how do we build business and profit off of that? That's a totally different thing. And it's fine customer acquisition, it's just marketing advertising. These elements have always existed as part of brand building, so that's important too. But let's not conflate the two community. And circling back to my point earlier, it can be as few as one person.

(16:59):

And really what we're talking about is bridging human and meaningful connections with people where you aren't treating them as customers or even as fans, but someone who is in the boat with you in working with you. And so I've never, for those who aren't familiar with the way that we established our brand, I grew up in the hardcore scene. And if you visit any of these, attend any concerts in these little punk shows, it's really hard to discern sometimes who's the singer and who's a fan. The often the vocalist will jump into the mosh pit and then the microphone will get ripped out of his hands and someone else will be singing. And then you realize that everybody in the room for that moment at least, or for that evening, is part of the band and definitely a part of the memory that is made that night.

(17:56):

It's not just up to the five people that are standing on a higher stage. And it's not a hierarchy between we have a voice and you'll listen to what we have to say. And here you are down here and you have to abide by what we're doing. We're all going to be involved in where this conversation's going to go. And so that's my philosophy still. 20 years ago, that's how we wanted to build the brand. And 20 years later, I still think that's the right way to approach how to build a company.

Noor Tagouri (18:35):

Thank you for sharing that. So something that I feel like you were on the forefront of talking about from when at least it hit my timeline, is NFTs. And the reason I was going to say, I'm not trying to talk about NFTs themselves, but as somebody who has, is evolving their brand and is keeping a listening ear to how you can better be of service to your community, where does Web three and NFTs come into place, and how does that potentially play a role in your personal relationship with relevance?

Bobby Kim (19:21):

Yeah, I definitely didn't get involved in web three. What's probably the more marketing friendly word of saying NFTs these days?

Noor Tagouri (19:33):

I know

Bobby Kim (19:35):

All of a sudden to be begin, there was even a moment where NFTs became digital collectibles, because there's so much stigma around NFTs. Immediately people started thinking of 5 million monkey pictures and people cheating each other and pyramid schemes. So then everyone's just like, we can't use that word anymore. We're going to use digital collectible. So let's just talk about web three. But I'm kind of unabashedly talk about NFTs because I don't really care, but

Noor Tagouri (20:04):

Well, you're also writing a book on them.

Bobby Kim (20:06):

So what I do, I did. I did. And it's dropping on May 16th.

Noor Tagouri (20:10):

Oh, it's already Congratulations.

Bobby Kim (20:12):

So this is perfect.

Noor Tagouri (20:13):

Yeah. Great. See

Bobby Kim (20:15):

Pre-order the book. But yeah, the book actually covers my journey into this space in the last two to three years. And we didn't enter it because we thought it was, again, a marketing decision. It wasn't a ploy for us to try to find relevance and culture any of that, because to be fair, it wasn't cool back then. And it's definitely not any cooler now to be into that world. What inspired us and what stoked us was, well, first of all, here's this dynamic technology. It's just an innovative new path that we can explore. I've always been really tantalized by anything that moves in tech. To me, there's always been this narrative that tech is exists on one side and art and culture and anything cool is on the other, right? There's like this canyon between Silicon Valley and Silicon Beach, like SF and LA are worlds apart supposedly.

(21:14):

But of course that's not true. Fashion actually came from technology. Like tailoring was the first real sense of technology. And even in that, you got to identity and personal art, and that was all managed through the technology of tailoring. And then when we were starting in the early two thousands, I used blog technology to not only connect with my audience, but also to be heard. And so technology actually facilitated a lot of my drains and visions, and especially my art over the, my career. And so here was maybe perhaps a next wave of what that could be. At first, I was really confused by it, and then I really hated it. And then with some parts of it, I'm still really turned off by. But I think what really, really appealed to me was the sense of, for the first time, our community can actually not just have a sense of ownership, but a real ownership in how this brand performs.

(22:22):

And that was such, it seems crazy to think that it was a revolutionary thought at the time be, and to me, it's already an, of course, it's an obvious, we need this. I think over the next 10 to 20 years, we're all going to look back and be like, can you believe there was a time where brands and businesses were structured that there was such inequality and a disparity and an imbalance between the owners in between the consumers. And as I was writing the white paper for the projects that we were starting to build, at the time, I was looking down at my sneakers and I was wearing probably some Nikes at the time. And I have these swooshes on the sides of my feet, and every day I'm walking around Los Angeles or New York and giving free advertising to this massive corporation that's become the biggest sportswear giant in the world.

(23:17):

I don't get paid by Nike. I'm not sponsored or endorsed, but here I am giving them advertising because for in exchange, I get social clout. I, it's a social badge and it somehow gives me cache in my immediate circles, but I'm not necessarily making any more money by giving this brand free advertising every day. And once you realize that tech has been doing the same thing for the last 10 to 15 years of our lives, you look around and everybody's working for a big tech company. These guys at the top are bazillionaires while the rest of us have relatively stayed the same or have lost over the last decade of our lives. And then you consider why, how did these companies get so big, these apps and these social networks? Well, they're all existing and building off of content that we're providing for free. I saw something crazy yesterday. I went into someone's Instagram feed, and I don't know when this happened. If you go into their grid and you're scrolling through their grid, they're throwing advertising

Noor Tagouri (24:28):

Yeah, no, I know. I noticed that. That's wild. That's wild. It's really frustrating.

Bobby Kim (24:33):

That is my personal page. And you are selling advertising against it. And again,

Noor Tagouri (24:39):

You're not making it

Bobby Kim (24:40):

From it financially. And I think we need to address the fact that whenever I talk about the financial upside of all this, of tech, and you deserve this much and you deserve a little bit of ownership and need to make some money, there is this immediate reaction from a lot of the arts community of like, oh, why does it always need to be about money? And I'm like, that's also a narrative that these people in power have brainwashed a lot of young creators with, oh, you should do it for love. We don't want to see you get rich. You should be, be a starving artist. Right? It's always starving artists. It's always working artists. It's always poor artists. That's the narrative. And you never hear of starving art gallery or poor clothing company, or it's like, no, these people are the ones that are benefiting and you need to stay hungry.

(25:37):

And that's how you're pure as an a creative person. And that's not fair because a lot of people don't have the means to live and are having to manage multiple jobs just in order to survive, to create work. But they believe, oh, my art doesn't cost anything, or No one wants to pay me for my art. And obviously it's not true because your art has always been making someone money. It wasn't you. Every jpeg you're posting online somewhere, a caption, a witty caption, you're writing on your Instagram or putting on your Twitter or something, you're posting on TikTok, someone was making money. It wasn't you. It was big tech. And that's why they've become trillionaires and zillionaires. Yeah. While you're like, wait, I still can't afford to buy a house in my city. And so Web three nailed that right on the head. And when I looked at it, again from a brand perspective, that for 20 years I've been building a brand around this idea of community and telling all of my fans and audience, audience and my consumers, oh yeah, you all have a sense of ownership.

(26:47):

Yeah. To them, it was almost like it becomes very tribal. It's like a sports team. Hey, we're rooting for you. We're all on the hundredth side. As they do better, we do better. But that was also a lie. And I'm here living with the guilt as the founder of this company saying like, oh, I'm getting to eat. Well, I'm getting to travel. Well, my career is flourishing. I'm getting more access. I'm making more money in different avenues, and then I'm seeing my customers going just consuming and consuming and consuming. And so here was the first time that I was like, oh, we can actually reframe this relationship between purveyor and consumer. And again, I think we're actually getting to a place where this idea is going to become much more normalized. I don't think we're going to get to a point where the idea of 5 million monkey JPEGs are going to be normalized.

(27:34):

That was never my thought going into NFTs. That part of what Web three is, is really sensational and probably appeals and considers about 500 to 5,000 people in the world. But the elements of Web three and NFTs that I think are universal and that can actually change the world, are this idea of redistribution of wealth, redistribution of power, reframing the relationships between payers and consumers, business owners and business supporters. We should all somehow be involved in the same conversation. And I'm seeing parts of it pop up here and there, whether it's called Web three or not, there's a movie out right now called Air, and it's,

Noor Tagouri (28:18):

Yeah, we saw it.

Bobby Kim (28:19):

I think it's the most artist royalties movie ever. That's actually the premise of it, of Viola Davis who's playing Michael Jordan's mother saying, cool, we'll do this contract. Right. I don't think I'm spell anything because this is actually the premise of the entire movie, but she's just like, Michael's going to be involved in the upside of this forever. And that was, to me, I was like, that's web three. We just didn't call it that then. And that changed what endorsements look like.

Noor Tagouri (28:49):

And it sounded extremely radical at the time.

Bobby Kim (28:52):

It sounded extremely radical at the time, and it sounded extremely radical. Now we've gone this far and people are still like, oh yeah, we should be involved in that. And again, it's these corporations and the clothing brands like mine all take ownership in that, that are telling everyone like, no, no, we're the brand. We make the money and you consume. And that just doesn't seem fair. Again, Michael Jordan was the influencer. He does have a right to share in the upside because he is partially the reason why the shoes sell so well. And just because you are not Michael Jordan with 3 billion fans around the world, doesn't mean you're not also an influencer. You can just have three fans. You can have three family members. You don't even need to have social media. You go to your barbershop, you know,

Noor Tagouri (29:38):

Tell 'em about what you're wearing

Bobby Kim (29:39):

And they see what you're wearing and you're an interested person

Noor Tagouri (29:41):

Totally.

Bobby Kim (29:42):

They're going to be like, oh, I want that. Just the colors you're wearing in front of me that's inspiring me and how I design. And when I go out, if I see something like that today in a store, I might buy it. So you now just inspired me. Right. So we all actually deserve, I'm not saying we deserve 50% of a product, but 0.001%. Yeah. Because we did have some say in some, some involvement in the success of whatever that product was.

**ISY AD BREAK** [00:30:56]

Noor Tagouri (30:08):

That's what an amazing way to reframe it. I really, I'm really looking forward to the book and I, it's like we needed to hear that from you specifically. Because I also think that part of equation though is like, okay, if we start from the source, is people feeling worthy enough to think that they matter enough to be a part of the bigger picture and because of the society that we live in, being a very capitalistic one, specifically part of the medicine of, or I shouldn't say medicine, but part of the poison of consuming, oh my gosh, that's a circus survive song. The only difference between medicine and poison is in the dose. I just got it. Part of the poison of consuming is that we tell people to consume because they need it, because they're not enough. And I think that this reframe is like, we want you to be a part of it because not only are you more than enough, but you're also integral to our process.

(31:11):

And we want you to know that we want to honor you in that, and we want you to know that we value you. We can sit there and be like, yeah, we value as a customer, we value as a client. But at the end of the day, what that typically meant was because, because you pay us. But now we're like, because you make us and we are honored to be of service to you. And so when people are struggling with that concept of self-worth and value, but also, and don't entirely see a place for them in this next era, what are some questions that you feel like those people should ask themselves or contemplate on so that they can find their way?

Bobby Kim (31:55):

Yeah, you're absolutely right. I think everyone does need to realize that the companies and the brands and the corporations could not exist without them. And I think we need to begin there. I used to speak, there's a chain store that we don't sell to anymore with The Hundreds, but they used to invite us to this huge conference every year, and all the founders from all the skate and street wear brands would stand up on stage in front of thousands of kids who actually sold the product in all those stores. It was a once a year conference, and I would watch all the, and everyone would get to go up and give a little speech. And so you had the founder of XYZ Surf company or the XYZ skate brand, cool street wear guy going up on stage and be like, yo, what's up? And all the fans are cheering him on, and they're like, you can see all the customers like, oh my God, that's who we get to sell product for every day.

(32:52):

And then I'm like, that guy's so famous, and he's so rich and he's so important. And it just really weirded me out. Again, having come from the punk scene where I'm like, this is so backwards. These people should be on stage. And so that's what I said when I went out on stage, I was like, actually, I should be in the audience and you should be on the stage because I couldn't be here without you. I'm just a guy who drew pictures and makes clothes. I could have just been doing this for an audience of one in a garage as a hobby, but because of you and your belief, this company actually turned into something. So if you take anything out of what this podcast is today, I want you to leave with when, whenever you're looking at, especially the higher corporations, and it's not just in fashion, it's in tech, it's in food, it's in hospitality. Just remember that you are always the one that's in the position of power. And when I give advice on young brands doing collaborations and they're figuring out their contracts and agreements, I'm like, they need you more than you need them always. You can always walk away. You're going to be fine. But they have a lot more to lose, and their success is predicated on you continuing to exist in sport. 

Noor Tagouri (34:24):

I hear what you're saying, and I think to most people it's just like, yeah, but again, boiling it down to financials, but they don't need us. I need them because I need that contract, or I need that gig because I'm an independent freelance person and they have a lot of money. So yeah, fair. And this is even speaking from experience too, especially when you're either being tokenized or you're just kind of going through a roster, and this is why I left the agency that I was at, is it, I don't like this feeling of being like, well, we can just get somebody else from our catalog and there's no relationship building. And so now our approach is always through relationship building. And in that way it's, I guess they need you maybe because of the intention and the uniqueness that you may bring as a person as well. Can you unpack that a little bit more? Because I, it's, I hear what you're saying and I know it's true, but sometimes it doesn't feel true

Bobby Kim (35:29):

That you're enough.

Noor Tagouri (35:31):

Well, that's an interesting that they need us more than we need them.

Bobby Kim (35:38):

I think it's totally fair what you were saying that especially if you are just trying to survive, it's a little bit easier for me to say this at my stage in my career. Screw them. You don't need 'em. Just follow your dreams. And that's not exactly what it is that I'm trying to say. There's always a balance and a dance, right. And especially in streetwear, I get asked a lot about high fashion and luxury stealing and pirate being off of what we've built. And I'm like, you have to remember that we also do need them in a way because they're on the main stage. So when you go to Coachella, Coachella's this weekend in Los Angeles, there's a main stage. Those are the acts on the bill. When you see the fire, the headliners are in size like 25 font. And then there's smaller apps, more independent emerging artists that are lowering the bill in smaller font.

(36:48):

And I don't look at them as one is more important than the other in the sense of any type of value. Got it. I look at 'em as they all need to be there together in the ecosystem for it to remain healthy and balanced. And so people come for the headliners, but then they learn about the emerging artists. The emerging artists also keep the headliners grounded and more personable where it doesn't feel like Coachella has become this corporate sold out event. And then for the younger emerging artists on the bill, the smaller names, they like the big brands being on there because that gives them a sense of validation. And people are like, wow, you're performing on the same day that Frank Ocean is. Maybe you're the next Frank Ocean. And so it is a little bit of a relationship, and there is a little bit of a dance where you do have to remember that you do need some of these bigger companies in order to be the platform for you not only to aspire to get up there, but also to want to take it down and be the next version of that.

(38:00):

And they give you exposure. So

Noor Tagouri (38:03):

It feels more like an ecosystem rather than a pyramid

Bobby Kim (38:06):

Almost. Yeah, it is an ecosystem. I think it's all, there have been points in my career and it actually toggles back and forth where on this small name on the belt, and then there are seasons where I’m the big name, and to me, it doesn't make a difference. I'm just like, this is where I'm at right now. And when you're a small artist on the bill and you're living, you're touring out of the van, there's something very uncomfortable but also very magical and shock about that.

Noor Tagouri (38:35):

Yeah.

Bobby Kim (38:36):

And you're making, creating an incredible, profound work. And when you're the big name at the top, all the radio show concerts that you have to do, and the talk shows you got to go on, you got to perform the same song over and over and over again. It's very uncreative. And so it's just matter of considering the perspective and remembering how relative everything is, that it's all happening for certain reasons. Even in the book that I wrote in 2019, my memoir, and this is more a matter of timing, but there are anecdotes in there that took 20 years to write. And then there are anecdotes that I talk about that happen within 20 minutes, and they have equal weight in the book. Each of 'em have four or five pages each dedicated to them. And so in the story of my life, it's not like one was more momentous than the other. Just because one took 20 minutes and one took 20 years doesn't mean that one was more valuable than the other. I needed both of them to happen in order to tell this broader story. And so I think it's the same. We've, when we were starting out in with The Hundreds, I were really intentional about going out. We'd go to the trade shows and turn down orders over and over and over again. There's an anecdote in my book where we covered our rest

Noor Tagouri (39:58):

I know. I love the story

Bobby Kim (40:00):

With tarps because we were like, we don't need you. I had the luxury to say that at the time I was making money writing and doing other stuff on the side. And so when a big massive department store Macy's was coming and saying, Hey, we're going to give you a hundred thousand dollars right now if you open this up and let's let us look at your t-shirts. We were like, no, we don't need you. You need us. And the more I state save you off, the more you're going to be demand around my product. Yeah. I can wait two to three years for you to come back and write me a million dollar order, which never happened because we never decided to sell in. But I, I'm hyper aware that we had the luxury to say that. It's more of the mindset that I'm just trying to keep reminding people of that sometimes in these negotiations with these corporations, or if you're going out for a job and you feel like they're kind of taking one over on you, it's just the mindset. Yeah. There's no shame in taking the check or kind of compromising a little bit pay if you feel like, Hey, I really need to do this. It's okay if, yeah. This is just a journey. It's a process as you build your career.

Noor Tagouri (41:09):

Yeah. And what really stood out to me with what you just said is the toggling back and forth. So toggling back and forth between being a headliner and an emerging artist status, or the 25 font and the 12 font, it's so important because the journey isn't linear. So it's not like you're going from being the 12 font on the bill to the 25, and then you just keep going up and up. And that's where things get a little bit tricky is I think that people, when they are no longer headlining, they feel this, I'm not relevant anymore. I'm really whatever. What do I have to do? Instead of it being like, no, you just keep doing you. Because especially when you're in a creative space, it takes a lot of time and processing of your work to be able to make the important art that you need to make.

(42:08):

So you need those breaks. And I love how you described it as when you're headlining and you have to do all the talk shows and you have to sing the song, same song over and over and over again, and then you miss the days where you're just, for me, it's being in the cabin and painting and writing and just figuring out what it is that I need to get out. And so the toggling back and forth is also a complete reframe because it equalizes every experience and it just says it's all relevant, it's all good, it's all perfect. It's all meant to be. And I find that to feel really light and reassuring. I've found peace with that myself in the last, during the pandemic specifically. And it's also brought up a lot of questions that I've had to ask myself about how I'm engaging with the work or what my actual intention in doing the work I'm doing is. And then the broader questions of, and what do you believe about all of this? And who are you really? So I'd love to ask you, what is a question that you are currently asking yourself as you are in the toggle mode?

**AYS AD BREAK** [00:44:35]

Bobby Kim (43:11):

Yeah. Wow. And as you're hearing me talk about this, I'm hearing myself talk about it too, right?

Noor Tagouri (43:18):

Yeah.

Bobby Kim (43:19):

This is part, it's like therapy.

Noor Tagouri (43:21):

Welcome. Right. Welcome to the chair. Yes.

Bobby Kim (43:24):

Yeah. I love this chair. So where am I at right now in

Noor Tagouri (43:31):

A question you're asking yourself right now? And this can also be completely related to something other than what we were just talking about.

Bobby Kim (43:39):

Yeah. A question I'm asking myself right now. I had dinner with Aria from Complex, I don't know if Aria, she's I think the editorial creative director right now. And she's like, all right, Bobby, you're a futurist. What are you concerned about with the future? And I was just like, I don't know what a futurist is. I don't know if I necessarily subscribe to that identity. And I do like to pontificate on what's happening. Word is going to go, and especially for culture and tech, of course. But I am actually most concerned with what's happening in the immediate right now, and especially around youth culture and young people all the time. And so I think questions I'm asking right now have a lot to do with, for me, the most pertinent is what street wear and where is street wear in 2023, and what does it mean?

(44:37):

How do you even define it? We're in New York right now, and I spent the last week here, and there was a time, not that long ago, in my opinion, seven years ago, six years ago, where every other person on the street was wearing something supreme. This was the city in the heart of Supreme. And I was very hard pressed to find that brand. I saw more LA brands present in New York this week than I did New York, which was also, it used to be unheard of. And then this is not just a knock against Supreme. It's actually a question against across the entire street world culture, because sneakers are also having a little bit of an identity crisis. And there's also existential threats against just larger fashion of what is this and why are people still doing this, and what is the purpose? Where do we sell it?

(45:26):

Where do you even go to buy it these days? Yeah. Why are you buying brands? Who's running these brands? So I think about that actually more than ever. And it's not from a hopeless place. It actually is from a really spirited and hopeful place. I think that we may be looking at a renaissance of what street work can be. It's going to be redefined. I think that by new players, and it'll be forged as and cast as a completely new thing in the next generation. And I'm really looking forward to that. I want to know what it is. But I think streetwear has always just been code for it young, a youthful attitude and questioning establishment and challenging norms. And there's an amazing brand out of LA right now called Fugazi. And they made this street wear shirt where they were making fun of corporate street wearing, knocked a bunch of brands.

(46:24):

And one of us was us on it. And I was just like, this is awesome that this still exists, that young people are still getting angry and they're still feeling they're being marginalized and unheard, and they want to say, Hey, this is my time to be heard now, and I want the world to see what I have to say. That never dies. And so I think I'm so captivated by young people because I was, I'm stuck there too. And I think that time as vulnerable as it, I don't necessarily ever want to go back to being that young again. But there is something really beautiful and dynamic about watching people in that window of time in their lives, and they have just a completely fresh perspective and are inspired and they feel invincible. And I think we can all really learn from that. It helps me every day to wake up and remember why it is that we do what we do. And I don't feel like I age because I'm surrounded by and listening constantly to what young people are doing. And they're just constantly keeping the compass straight and keeping me on the path.

Noor Tagouri (47:42):

That's beautiful. Thank you. Yeah. I received all of that as a person who I feel like is in the thick of it and just needed that reminder. And

Bobby Kim (47:54):

I had dinner the other night that you guys couldn't make.

Noor Tagouri (47:58):

I know. I'm sorry.

Bobby Kim (47:58):

And you were there in spirit.

Noor Tagouri (48:01):

In spirit.

Bobby Kim (48:02):

And a lot of my friends now are around my age a little bit younger. I just turned 43, which is wild

Noor Tagouri (48:09):

To say. I used to be my school bus number, ohoh. So it's a lucky number number.

Bobby Kim (48:13):

There's also 10 blocks number, but there's a lot of people in their thirties. But there are also some people in the twenties that were at the table. Everyone was really drawn to them. And if you sat on the edge of the table where there were more people around my age and listened to what we were talking about, it sounded a lot how the beginning of this conversation was What's on your heart? And I'm like, I'm just really worried. I'm a little anxious. I'm concerned right about the future, about my family, what's going to happen? Cause I know so much now. And knowing, does it mean that you're any more empowered? In fact, I think it can actually weaken and harm. And I think that's point to the internet to see why a lot of people are struggling with so much anxieties because there's so much information. So you think, yeah, oh, because I have all this knowledge and history, I think it's going to happen tomorrow. Nobody knows what's going on.

Noor Tagouri (49:06):

Nobody knows.

Bobby Kim (49:07):

But the 20 year olds at the table, the way that they were looking at their lives or careers in the world, they're perfectly aware of what's going on. But they were like, we can change it and we can impact culture. And we can actually intro like, no one's heard me speak yet. Yeah. Right. And so once you hear what I have to say, yep, I'm going to move the needle. And they weren't being foolish or they weren't being naive. It was true. And so I'm listening to them going, I still can do that too. We all still can do that. It's just at some point along the way, we were like, ah, everyone's heard what I have to say, or I've done everything I can do, and I only got this far. It's like, no, you're the worst

Noor Tagouri (49:49):

But you're evolving every single day. You're a different person every single day. Yes. It's something I, I've been thinking about a lot since our rep investigation is I think people, especially in their twenties or even younger, feel a lot of pressure to change the world that we're leaving behind and that we're going to be able to survive in ourselves. And this takeaway that I had, this finding that I had in the investigation is, and I know we've like, there's a cliche quote of if you want to change the world, you have to start with yourself. But I never actually fully understood what that meant until more recently when I realized that the way that I changed the world when I changed myself is that by finally knowing myself and engaging with my own story and knowing my history and knowing who I am and where I come from and understand why I see the world the way that I see it, then my entire world view changes because I begin to see you as an individual story and that person as an individual story and that person.

(51:01):

And then you're more comforted in the fact that you don't know and that everything is a truth in front of you and you can just continue to pursue it. But when our own worldview expands in that way, then the world literally changes because our world literally changes, and we are also interconnected. And so I really have been finding the more you ask yourself the really big questions of who am I today in this very moment, the more that the world around you really fundamentally begins to change. I mean, mine has been, is I, I've been saying the last couple of days, I feel like I'm in a metamorphosis right now. Wow. I'm really in the biggest change of my life. And I hope that that continues forever and ever. But I feel grateful that I'm getting to know myself in a kind and compassionate and open way.

Bobby Kim (51:52):

And it feels positive. This metamorphosis, or

Noor Tagouri (51:55):

Is it feels today. It does. It feels scary today. It feels positive. Yeah.

Bobby Kim (51:59):

Yeah.

Noor Tagouri (51:59):

Five days ago I was

Bobby Kim (52:01):

Scary

Noor Tagouri (52:01):

Screaming and crying and freaking out. Every single day is new. Every single day is, what is it? Who this podcast interview that I listened to on being with Krista Tibit, I think, no, no, no. Just kidding. This was in my yoga practice a couple of days ago. The instructor literally said that her teacher told her It's a new day and it's never been used before. What are you going to do? It would do with it. It's a new day and it's never been used before. And it's just like, oh yeah. Every day you get to figure it out. And in the words of my 12 year old brother who a few days ago told me he figured out the meaning of life. He said, the meaning of life is exactly what you make of it, because all you do every day is make decisions. And so therefore, it's what you make of it. And I was like, you're right. Yeah. So we get to figure that out.

Bobby Kim (52:55):

Yeah. I love that.

Noor Tagouri (52:57):

So Bobby, the way we close out these conversations, very simple. Fill in the blank, if you really knew me, you would know and you can share one, two, or three things.

Bobby Kim (53:09):

Okay. If you really knew me, you would know. I've never posted my family on my social media or my public social media. So people who've met my wife or my children, I think they get to really know the real me. Yeah. I did that very early on because from the age of 23, so much of my life was online. I needed a compartmentalize and keep things for me. I, I think I surprised a lot of people because of what my life presents as and what I typically spend my hours doing, which is I just sit in a corner and I read a lot and I write poetry and sounds boring.

Noor Tagouri (53:58):

Sounds like the life to me.

Bobby Kim (53:59):

It is. It's a really amazing life. And nothing makes me happier than getting to reunite with old friends and just sitting in a room and having a conversation. We could be anywhere in the world, and it's just feels like everything was meant for this. Yeah. I don't know. I think if you really want to get to know me, subscribe to my Substack

Noor Tagouri (54:27):

Oh, yeah.

Bobby Kim (54:28):

And then just write about this stuff all the time.

Noor Tagouri (54:29):

I love your writing so much. Thanks. It's so true and clear and passionate and urgent with a sense of like, but we're all good.

Bobby Kim (54:41):

Thanks. Once in a while, one out of a hundred times when someone compliments me and says something very nice about my work, it is to address my writing. And if they read my book or something I wrote in my Substack and or they grew up reading the blog and they're just like, that meant the most. That's when I feel really seen.

Noor Tagouri (55:05):

Yeah, totally.

Bobby Kim (55:06):

And I think it's because as when you're a writer, it's unadulterated you. Speaker, also host. And you can't outsource that work. And as I've built the company over the years, I have a lot of people who helped me. Some people compliment me. I'm like, yo, I love these new shorts that you guys made. I'm like, I didn't actually design that pattern. Yeah. I sat at the top and I may have directed something or said, Hey, let's try something. Or it have been inspired by things that we've built along the way, and it keep related to this process, but there was probably 30 different people that were involved in this from design to production to sales and marketing. And so I'd love to take ownership in that, but I'm like, this is a community project. This was all of us that made these shorts. So I'll take it on behalf of the team. But when someone see, says that they were really touched by something I wrote, I'm like, oh, you and I like our hearts touched. That's such an amazing feeling.

Noor Tagouri (56:14):

Yeah. Well then it's also because it's Bobby Kim and not Bobby Hundreds.

Bobby Kim (56:19):

Yeah. It's like, that's me. And it's vulnerable and it's naked, and it's like scally, honest me. So that feels good.

Noor Tagouri (56:31):

I'm so happy to see you.

Bobby Kim (56:32):

So happy to see you too.

Noor Tagouri (56:33):

Thanks for doing the podcast.

Bobby Kim (56:36):

Thanks for doing it in this tiny hotel room.

Noor Tagouri (56:38):

Yeah.

Bobby Kim (56:40):

You guys made it work.

Noor Tagouri (56:41):

No, we made it work. And I feel like, the conversation is happened all these years later, and I'm happy it happened from this place.

Bobby Kim (56:49):

Yeah, me too.

Noor Tagouri (56:50):

Thanks, Bobby.

Bobby Kim (56:52):

Hold on. Don't put that down. I wanted to take a photo of you this whole time.

Noor Tagouri (56:55):

Oh, okay.

Bobby Kim (56:57):

Yes. It was just like the light. It was really good.

Noor Tagouri (57:02):

I know. I don't like what videos did you guys get because they were definitely all back lit.

Bobby Kim (57:10):

The light is hitting nicely. Got it.

(57:19):

Love you, Bobby. Love you guys.